Curse

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 03, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

A 40/40 should place painful bond just as often as a rit.

Aren't binding rituals unaffected by using a 40/40 set?

If so, doesn't it seem pointless to use a 40/40?

FoxBat · Feb 03, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

1) Painful Bond isn't a binding spell and

2) The point was a siphonless ranger wouldn't have as much energy to spam Bond (no comment on whether that's true)

Daesu · Feb 03, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

2) The point was a siphonless ranger wouldn't have as much energy to spam Bond (no comment on whether that's true)

Expertise does not reduce the energy cost of spells and painful bond is a hex spell.

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 03, 2010, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

1) Painful Bond isn't a binding spell and

2) The point was a siphonless ranger wouldn't have as much energy to spam Bond (no comment on whether that's true)

My point is that using a 40/40 for 1 spell isn't worth it.

MasterSasori · Feb 03, 2010, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

My point is that using a 40/40 for 1 spell isn't worth it.

I never said it was. My point was to address AndroBubble's post about a ritualist being able to place Painful Bond on enemies more often than a ranger. I wanted to point out that this comparison is pointless because ritualist being able to place Painful Bond on enemies is the result of a weapon effect and not the class itself.

Lord Chris Bravo · Feb 03, 2010, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I use my rit for particully everything Vanquishing, PvP you name it .. it does it both effective and with some skill you can manage your energy really well eg. with an SoS .. i prefer to use Spirit siphon when i use it .. and after i have set down all my spirits .. i just have to cast Spirit siphon and BAM i can use painfull bond .. but that's just me

Oh btw ... i use a 40/40 channelling set at times and it works well with spirits ... especially when tackling a large mob in HM

Voodoo Rage · Feb 03, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Chris Bravo

I use my rit for particully everything Vanquishing, PvP you name it .. it does it both effective and with some skill you can manage your energy really well eg. with an SoS .. i prefer to use Spirit siphon when i use it .. and after i have set down all my spirits .. i just have to cast Spirit siphon and BAM i can use painfull bond .. but that's just me

Oh btw ... i use a 40/40 channelling set at times and it works well with spirits ... especially when tackling a large mob in HM

Now does the 40/40 effect spirits casts? I don't think it does.

To me it makes more sense to take a shield and spear set to compensate for my superior chan rune.

MasterSasori · Feb 03, 2010, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Chris Bravo

I use my rit for particully everything Vanquishing, PvP you name it .. it does it both effective and with some skill you can manage your energy really well eg. with an SoS .. i prefer to use Spirit siphon when i use it .. and after i have set down all my spirits .. i just have to cast Spirit siphon and BAM i can use painfull bond .. but that's just me

Oh btw ... i use a 40/40 channelling set at times and it works well with spirits ... especially when tackling a large mob in HM

40/40 only affects spells, which means Painful Bond is likely the only spell to benefit. In that case, it may be better to just Shield+Spear for +60 HP, armor, and IAS for AP-MoP activation.

Lanier · Feb 03, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

In response to the OP:

1. Ritualists armor looks pretty awesome

2. Spawning power really isnt that bad. Increased health for spirits is essential for builds centered around the defensive spirits (shelter, union, and displacement), and its usefull for offensive spirits as well as one of the purposes of a spirit spammer is to provide more units for body blocking. The additional length of weapon spells is a nice bonus as well, and there are several nice spells in the spawning power line.

Lord Chris Bravo · Feb 03, 2010, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Now does the 40/40 effect spirits casts? I don't think it does.

To me it makes more sense to take a shield and spear set to compensate for my superior chan rune.

Quote:

40/40 only affects spells, which means Painful Bond is likely the only spell to benefit. In that case, it may be better to just Shield+Spear for +60 HP, armor, and IAS for AP-MoP activation.

Obvisiously i was wrong .. in that case it's good for painfull bond .. especially when tackling large mobs

AndroBubbles · Feb 04, 2010, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I never said it was. My point was to address AndroBubble's post about a ritualist being able to place Painful Bond on enemies more often than a ranger. I wanted to point out that this comparison is pointless because ritualist being able to place Painful Bond on enemies is the result of a weapon effect and not the class itself.

My point is that when you crunch numbers, a ritualist with a 40/40 set will be able to place painful bond more frequently than a ranger with a 40/40 set because of energy management. If you want to take into account the fact that the damage the ritualist will pump out is superior, I don't see why we're bothering to compare a ranger to a ritualist primary in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

To me it makes more sense to take a shield and spear set to compensate for my superior chan rune.

There's this fun little thing I like to do called weapon swapping.

MasterSasori · Feb 06, 2010, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

My point is that when you crunch numbers, a ritualist with a 40/40 set will be able to place painful bond more frequently than a ranger with a 40/40 set because of energy management. If you want to take into account the fact that the damage the ritualist will pump out is superior, I don't see why we're bothering to compare a ranger to a ritualist primary in the first place.

You give the ranger SS and he will still pump out painful bond just as often due to the lengthy recharge. He may not even need it with high Expertise.

I'm not comparing which is better Rit v Ranger as an SoS, I'm stating the fact that Painful Bond can be used as frequently a rit using the same weapon and/or spells.

It's obvious that Rit primary is better than Ranger primary for SoS in almost every situation but whether you can cast the hex more often isn't one of them.

Drbongalot · Feb 08, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by EwolxNavi

There may be better classes for this but...

For me, my Rit primary is all about versatility. Most folks want Spirit Spam, and I can do that. But I can also spike, minion master and heal (and I can heal better than some monks I've seen). I do of course suffer from the problem that my ranger guildmate does. Versatile classes can't do things quite as well as the dedicated classes can, we're jacks-of-all-trades but masters of none. Still, I like being able to switch quickly to fill the various niches that a group requires when that particular class is in short supply.

dun forget dagger rit

The Drunkard · Feb 09, 2010, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Other than looks/armor, why do people use primary ritualists nowdays?

I'm asking because as a mesmer primary, I also understand there's very little reason to have mesmer primary, because most of the mesmer skills received (multiple) nerfs since good old days (and even then mesmer wasn't that good in PvE).

I love their attack animation, makes them look drunk which is perfect for my character.

Personally, there isn't really a reason to go rit unless you like the looks; spawning power is still useless (oh no my spirit died! oh wait the skill recharged) and most builds you can with other professions (the only exceptions are SS rits and minion bombers.)

khaderach19 · Feb 09, 2010, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Its been stated before but runes are your primary reason. Its pve and there is no reason not to run Superior headpieces all the time.

Spawning power's passive benefits for spirits and minions have been reiterated enough but the line itself has a lot of utility.

Feast of Souls: since quick recharge SS is meta now. Its an emergency heal for 7x90hp to all party members.

explosive growth: conditional damage but ridiculous if used correctly. animate bone minions = 112 aoe damage every 5 seconds, with boon of creation its basically spammable.

Rupture soul: correctly placed with destruction will do a nice aoe spike, + blind.

Voodoo Rage · Feb 09, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Maintainable weapon spells too. I'm finding it pretty reasonable to keep Great Dwarf Weapon up on 3 characters during a battle.

Lanier · Feb 09, 2010, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

I love their attack animation, makes them look drunk which is perfect for my character.

Personally, there isn't really a reason to go rit unless you like the looks; spawning power is still useless (oh no my spirit died! oh wait the skill recharged) and most builds you can with other professions (the only exceptions are SS rits and minion bombers.)

Spawning Power isnt useless at all. The increased health for spirits is really pretty good as spirits are also used for additional bodies for the enemy to target. The more time the enemy spends attacking a spirit, the less time it spends attacking you. The increase to weapon spells duration is the best reason to use spawning power, however, as there are many powerful weapon spells that have short durations and that benefit from it (weapon of warding, spirit light weapon, great dwarf weapon, resiliant weapon, warmongers weapon, etc.). Finally, there are several good skills in the spawning power line.

The Drunkard · Feb 09, 2010, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Spawning Power isnt useless at all. The increased health for spirits is really pretty good as spirits are also used for additional bodies for the enemy to target.

Spirits have a pretty quick cooldown and can be precasted before a fight (along with summon spirits). I don't really see a difference because if my spirit dies I can just pop another one up. Spirits are fragile anyway unless you use armor of unfeeling, a little extra health isn't going to go a long way when a boss can OHK them with a AoE or PbAoE (note: I play a lot more HM than nm).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

The increase to weapon spells duration is the best reason to use spawning power, however, as there are many powerful weapon spells that have short durations and that benefit from it (weapon of warding, spirit light weapon, great dwarf weapon, resiliant weapon, warmongers weapon, etc.)

True, however I don't find a few seconds especially important though with weapon skills (why would you use warmongers instead of GDW?). Prefrences are prefrences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Finally, there are several good skills in the spawning power line.

Unless you are doing minion bombing or AwS casting, most of it is redundant/weak.

Until Anet decides to give rits a bit of love redesigning SP, they can only push up numbers for non-SP skills. Again, it's all a matter of prefrence.

MasterSasori · Feb 10, 2010, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Spirits have a pretty quick cooldown and can be precasted before a fight (along with summon spirits). I don't really see a difference because if my spirit dies I can just pop another one up. Spirits are fragile anyway unless you use armor of unfeeling, a little extra health isn't going to go a long way when a boss can OHK them with a AoE or PbAoE (note: I play a lot more HM than nm).

Running AoU means using a slot on the incredibly condensed SoS rit bar. Communing also has nothing else to offer other than Shadowsong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

True, however I don't find a few seconds especially important though with weapon skills (why would you use warmongers instead of GDW?). Prefrences are prefrences.

The extra few do matter on players instead of heroes. With high spawning it is not too difficult to keep 4 GDW on your team. Yes I've done it and its awesome.

Unless you are doing minion bombing or AwS casting, most of it is redundant/weak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Until Anet decides to give rits a bit of love redesigning SP, they can only push up numbers for non-SP skills. Again, it's all a matter of prefrence.

Spawning on a hero doesn't need to exceed 6 and with a rune, 7. That's enough for a bit of extra life and extra seconds. You are right that SP skills are near worthless. It's not SP thats a real problem anymore, it's the incredibly worthless skills.

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 10, 2010, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Running AoU means using a slot on the incredibly condensed SoS rit bar. Communing also has nothing else to offer other than Shadowsong.

Anguish, Earthbind, AoU, Shadowsong, and Pain are acceptable options.

That's roughly the same amount of useful skills in Channeling (SoS, Bloodsong, Splinter, Siphon, Painful Bond).

Without AoU, spirits are way too squishy.

What build are you suggesting without using Communing?